THE ZOCALO DISCUSSION TOPIC - PAGE 2

I think there are benefits and disadvantages to making movies out of books. It depends on the book, but sometimes you can notice something new about the story by seeing it in a visual format or experience it in a new way. Other times, it ruins the mental picture you have conceived or changes the story in an important way. An example of one I think worked, although some would disagree, is Carl Sagan's Contact. As usual, some things were left out from the book to the movie, but the essence of it was the same. I think the movie version was intelligently done. It seems most books don't come out well on the big screen or comic books for that matter. Both mediums depend on imagination of the reader. I think the ones that do work have had a lot of input from the authors themselves. It will be interesting to see if the Lord of The Rings movies do the books justice.

Steph

Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 11:29:20 AM EDT
From: "Cripe, Helen L."

I've read the JMS scripts mentioned and about all I can say is, Wow!! What powerful stories!! I had guessed a few things in them, but not nearly everything. He did exactly what he always said he would -- flipped the story from the expected disease cure-hunt to something far bigger in scope, and had he had a chance to do the full arc, would probably have brought in even more changes. Wonder if there's any chance at all that he'll novelize the rest of Crusade for us? What a wonderful series of novels that would be -- and these two scripts certainly have us drooling for more.

After I read the two excellent scripts, all I could think is: "TNT SUCKS!"

But that's just me...

The Crusade scripts on www.bookface.com are great. They underscore just what we are missing with the cancellation of Crusade. Luckily, with the episodes that we did see, we can visualize what was going on in the scripts and hear what the actors were saying. It is quite an interesting experience reading a new script. They seemed to show that as many people had expected, finding the cure to the Drakh plague was only going to be one factor and possible just a catalyst to the events in the whole series arc.

It would be nice to see as many B5 scripts as possible also up on bookface.

Neil Ottenstein

I read them as soon as I found out they were there, and LOVED 'em. These babies have GOT to get filmed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

With the discovery that there is indeed water on Mars, here's the topic for this week:

Should NASA be given the ability to put more effort into exploring Mars and other planets in our solar system? Is the effort being put forth on an international space station worthwhile?

Date: 7/2/2000 12:46:35 AM EDT
From: SNBennet@cs.com

Well, considering I plan to one day possibly work for NASA as an engineer or possibly an astronaut, I would have to say that more effort should definitely be given to exploring other planets in our solar system. They could provide us with invaluable information about the formation and functions of life and planets, which could benefit humankind. They could also provide materials that we could us. And they could also serve as colonies for human settlers, and, in the distant future, as jumping off points for space travel beyond this star system. A couple days ago while on vacation, I visited the Kennedy Space Center and was able to view parts of the international space station being built. It was a wonderful experience, and if you're in the Florida area (and even if you're not), you should check it out. I think the effort to create the station is worth it. Although only two nations have gotten people into space, space is not owned by only those two nations. And since ISS is being built by nations who have and who have not accomplished that, the station represents that outerspace is not owned by a single person, corporation or nation--it's for everyone. ISS shows that people of different nations can come together peacefully for a common goal; it shows that nations can unite their efforts to accomplish something good. ISS also provides a workplace to help study diseases in zero gravity, which could lead to cures or better treatments for those diseases. Other scientific experiments that could be beneficial can be preformed in the zero-g environment of the station. ISS can also be a place to train astronauts for extended trips in space, possibly to train them for visits to Mars. And just remember what Commander Sinclair when asked if Babylon 5 was worth all the trouble and money: "We have to stay here, and there's a simple reason why. Ask ten different scientists about the environment, population control, genetics; and you'll get ten different answers, but there's one thing every scientist on the planet agrees on: whether it happens in a hundred years or a thousand years or a million years, eventually our sun will grow cold and go out. When that happens, it won't just take us. It'll take Marilyn Monroe and Lao-Tzu, Einstein, Morobuto, Buddy Holly, Aristophanes... and all of this... all of this was for nothing unless we go to the stars." bye, Stephanie

Moving away from earth could one day become essential. We have no idea what environmental catastrophies could be just around the corner. Global warming is still not completely understood, for example. There is also the risk of an asteroid collision. We have all ready had several 'near misses' with so called 'planet killer' sized asteroids. The point is that anything could happen to adversely affect our environment in the future. If that ever happens, it could be lights out for our civilisation if we are all still on earth. There's an old saying about keeping all our eggs in one basket.

I think that NASA should put as much effort into exploring Mars and other planets as they can afford. I believe that space travel and exploration is not only very fascinating, but could find the answers to many of our questions here on Earth. The limitless questions we have about our universe and the possibility that cures for diseases or even extraterrestrial life could be found out there are more than enough reasons to continue searching, in my opinion. The naysayers that don't want more money going into space travel simply don't have any imagination or foresight. All they think about is what is right here on our small planet (compared to the rest of the cosmos, we're small). They want to continue to sink all of our money into trying to solve our problems with little or no results with current methods (famine and disease are still prevalent over many parts of the world). They don't realize that the answers may be out there somewhere in space. It may take a long time to get them, but the time it takes will be worth it. If nothing else, discovery and hope are a big part of being human. And space exploration promises discovery and hope.

-Mike Tuck

Sooner or later, they're going to have to really invest in Martian and extra-terrestrial exploration. It's not an 'if,' but a 'when.' Unfortunately, the Cold War is over, which was space explorations best friend. Now that it's down to international cooperation, we all have agendas and higher priorities than space exploration. Personally, I'd love to see more time and effort devoted to interplanetary exploration, but it's going to be slow going for the next couple of decades. --Armen

Hi Sandy,

I think that NASA should be able to explore other worlds. Our world's population is growing an enormous amount and it will come time when we can not properly feed all these people... or should I sat that the 3rd world countries will become more poor and North America and Europe will become richer, reaping from the low economies and cheap food prices of these other countries.

We've been on this planet for a long time, and it's time for us to move on. It's not like we're leaving home, because we don't truly know where we came from, or where our home is.

The universe is out there waiting to be explored... we have to expect the unexpected and be prepared for problems, but to answer the discussion question: Yes.

- Anthony

What a great topic, here's my two cents:

I believe space exploration is the best thing we can do for ourselves and this planet. We are multiplying quickly, causing a need for more and more space and resources. Instead of completely depleting our planet, we should look to space (the moon, Mars, asteroids, comets, etc.) to help provide some of these resources. Also, as we grow intellectually, the new things we learn about the universe around us will help to feed our mind and give us hope that we are not alone. I think the International Space Station is also important because it gives a starting point for future exploration and is the first venture that will give private interests - and possibly eventually, the common person - a chance to get involved in space exploration and research. And, most importantly, it is the first major project ever created as a world, with many countries playing a part. For the first time it isn't the Russian space station or the American shuttle or the European probe ... it's the *International* Space Station ... it represents not all, but many parts of the planet Earth. This may be dramatic, but I think they key to future peace and understanding here will come from space, whether it is finding life out there or just working together to understand the universe.

Steph

Date: 6/20/2000 12:58:35 PM EDT
From: Marcus.Sprenkel@bakerhughes.com (Sprenkel, Marcus D.)

A good question. Long plots, short plots, or both?

If you look at science fiction down the years, you start to notice certain things, particularly about what people remeber as good, and what people remember as garbage. In the early days, you had the Saturday morning Flash Gordon series. Special effects that nowadays can be repeated by a 6 year old with a videoa camera, costumes that would get you a life sentence from the fashion police, and monsters that were less convincing that that strange man next door each halloween. But runnning throughout the entire 12 week run was a story that was fast paced and every week made you want to come the following week to find out exactly how Flash and Doctor Zharkov would saw Dale from the evil clutches of Ming the Merciless. The story was great, and you forgave everything else. Flash gordon was the first of the sci-fi serials, the others tried to copy it. Can you remember the other ones? Neither can I.

Later on in the films, the effects got better, but it was the ones with the good stories, the wheat, that remain in peoples minds and hearts, and the rest, the chaff, being cast into the wind of late night cable. "Forbidden planet", "The day the earth stood still" and "When world's collide" all relied primarily on stories, good ones, to hold the viewer, whilst the other effect based films had nothing to them. Most are now relegated to late night basic cable, never heard from again, or, in the case of a select few, they get the pleasure of being ritually dis-assembled by Mike Nelson and his crew on MST3K.

In the sixties in the US, "Star Trek" was the first major science fiction series, and it went for single individual stories every episode, with little to link them (although by the third episode it was obvious that if you wore a red shirt on an away mission, you'd better have left your will in an obvious spot in your quarters). In the UK, the classic "Doctor Who" went for a slightly different approach, with stories running for anywhere between 2 episodes to 10 episodes, all following the Flash Gordon cliff-hanger to link them and keep the viewer guessing. Rubbery monsters, wobbly sets and all, you can't say that a series that lasted 35 years and has a massive following can't have got everything wrong. It was the stories that kept it going. You watched one week, and then you had to watch the next week to see what was happening. Plus, both series gave us something else. Regular bad guys. If it was the klingons, the romulans, the daleks or the cybermen, if you heard that the next episode or story was going to feature one of your favourites, then you made special effort to watch it.

As Star Wars came along in 1977, we got presented with something that was cutting edge on the special effects, but if you look underneath it, you are looking at a story that in another time and place that would be somethingout of Knights of the Round Table or 1001 Arabian Night. i.e. classic stories. Loads of poeple jumped on the Star Wars Film Band wagon, and every single one of them failed, until Lucas came up with Empire and showed us that effects meant little if you didn't have a good story to go along with it. Having watched each of the Star Wars films on its own and the watching all three back to back, you notice that each film stands alone and each film stands together.

Back in the UK in the 80's, series like "Tripods", "Blake's Seven", and "Doctor Who" kept alive the tradition for the long saga-type stories, whilst the middle of the 80's, Gene Rodenberry re-invented the Star Trek formula with ST:TNG. The old Star Trek formula was working as well as ever, with the single-story-per-episode. But even here you can start to notice something coming in. References are made to previous episodes and some episodes are left open-ended. Whilst I personally am not a great believer in the sterile Star Trek universe, I must say that on the whole I did enjoy ST:TNG. They came up with some damn good ideas, some great characters and some brilliant on liners. Good writing for the majority of the 7 year run prevailed. (Alas for ST:DS9 and ST:Minivan).

For a science fiction series, B5 came up with something that was a little of a cross between the the Single-Story-Per-Episode mold and the long running Saga-type series. But, if you think about it, this format has been widely used in another television genre: The Soap Opera. If you are honest, the style is no more different that the style used in Dallas, Dynasty or any other of the soaps. Each episode of the soaps ask a number of questions, give out some information about the characters, answer a number of asked questions, and leave other questions un-answered.

So are we really talking about B5 being as soap opera in space? You could put it like that, but that would degrade from it's status.

The question that was asked was is it better to have a long running story lines, single episodes or a bit of both. I think that the question is grabbing the wrong end of the stick.

I saw an interview some time back on the TV with a Belgian animator, who said "The three most important things to remember are these: The story, the story and the story". And I believe it was Harlan Ellison who, when asked by JMS as to why no-one was buying his stories, advised him to "stop writing crap". And personally for me, that pretty much sums it up. Get a good story, and you can pretty much pull the viewer along irrespective of what else is happening.

It is the writing and the story that is the most important thing. Some stories will last for a short while, some for longer, but all of them need to be well written and intellegent to work. Life has good parts, bad parts, funny parts, sad parts, adventure, boredom, the whole nine yards. Weave these into a good well written story and people will watch it, be it a classic 5 year saga or a single episode.

Regards
Marcus D.Sprenkel

I think every scifi fan enjoys the longer story arc. We just like the twists and turns and ins and outs of second guessing where the longer story line is going but...now we have to be realistic.

Look at Crusade. We may never know where JMS was going with the story because it was canceled. Hence I would say realistically, that a short story arc with each episode standing alone is the way to go as the longer one may never be fulfilled.

Janice Scott-Reeder

Mmmmm. . .I think both a continuing arc and yet some individual stories from time to time. X-Files has done this successfully and B5 has in past. So for me both ways are the best ways!

Pam :0

The main consideration here is not so much what we want but how talented the writer is in order to deliver it cleanly.

New viewers to B5, so I understand, could follow the individual episode - and once hooked, in the first 4 seasons, soon found out the arc - if only from repeats, videos or just badging old B5 hands.

B5 combined both the individual episode along with an arc - watch the pilot and see how much now makes sense - without actually announcing an arc existed until we were given the answers. But maybe that worked because the end was always in sight - in 5 years time. The time frame itself forced many answers and maybe ensured the arc's life. Or maybe the arc ensured the interest in watching for the answers.

If we could have what we wanted - well I guess the B5 format says it all!

Angela Cassidy

Hi Sandy,

I think the secret of B5s success is the 5 year arc, where richness of the characters unfolds over the years (a bit like real life!), and the stories gather momentum, concluding in a special episode or two each season. Smaller stories within the major arc keep the audiences interest level up, while waiting for the next event in the overall story line.

Although stand-alone story lines are good for making it easy for new viewers to "hop on", it also makes it easy to hop off, which is what I found with TNG.

Keep up the good work,
Nick

I have enjoyed shows with either format. It is important, though, I believe, to know which kind the show is before we start watching. What has really bothered me lately is the way some shows start out as episodic and then become more continuing. I have noticed this with the Star Trek franchise. I think the creators of a show should decide which way they plan to go and stick with it. I have also enjoyed anthology shows, such as "Twilight Zone" and "The Outer Limits."

Laurraine Tutihasi

I really enjoyed the story arc of Babylon 5, and I think this is a great way to do a show. However, it is harder for new people to join and "get" the show in progress. Star Trek, The Next Generation did have the long story arc, (as does ST:DS9 which is considerably more like B5 then ST with its current story arc) with little references to past episodes that if you have not watched the show, you would not notice.

While I prefer the B5 story arc (which was excellent JMS! Thanks.) I can see the networks desire to have stand alone shows that carry on some loose connection so new viewers may also enjoy, and then start to follow the series.

Sandy,

This was a great question, especially considering the poor shape that tv is in today! I think JMS's approach of smaller story arcs within the larger framework worked perfectly. I know I looked forward to each new episode; even if the episode itself seemed trivial, there were almost always hidden gems, tidbits, or portents of things to come. And although many of the episodes could indeed stand alone, the development of plotlines, and even characters, made the show much more enjoyable. I think if he had been given the opportunity, JMS would have seen the same success with Crusade. The 13 shows we did get were just starting to jell. I sincerely hope the Sci-Fi Channel will look at Crusade with fresh eyes, and let Joe finish what he started, and what we all want.

Last week's topic:
If you could go out on a date with one of the characters on Babylon 5 or Crusade, who would you choose and why? Describe your dream date.

Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 6:47:50 AM EDT
From: Kailin Yu

Well, I'm going with Neroon. Yes, I know he was on 4 or 5 episodes, but I think that still qualifies him as a sub-character. And his impact was huge, as you know. Aside from being one face of the warrior caste for us, since we were usually seeing religious caste, he replaced Delenn on the Grey council, tried to kill her in order to take control of the Anla'shok, and then ended up conspiring with Delenn to finally end the civil war on Minbar, finally sacrificing his life to save Delenn. I think that qualifies as having an impact on the story in a big way. It doesn't hurt that John Vickery's performance of Neroon was rather brilliant too. So, there's my two cents.

You asked, so I'll tell you... I would've wanted a "dream date" with Carrie Dobro. I think she is the most intelligent & attractive woman I have seen in a recurring scifi role in a long time. I fell in love with her character instantly when she was introduced in "A Call To Arms". I also liked Dr. Chambers (???), the woman who took over as cheif medical officer for B5 when Dr. Franklin left the station for a position on Earth. But of course, she never did much during the series... an interesting character though when she did have small parts (like turning in Franklin for his erratic behaviors -- stim use)...

Hi Sandy!

Hmmm, well now, THIS is an interesting topic :P though one that I am finding a bit hard to answer, as there are so many choices for so many reasons :) So here is my pick. I have to take one from each show, as it would definately be too hard to pick otherwise.

So from B5, I would have to pick Garibaldi. Marcus is a close second, but I can not pass up on the G-man. Not only is he deffinately VERY good looking (esp in S5 with the bare head), but here is a man who loves to cook, and does so very well. And he is also funny, charming, stubborn, and has a lovely, hidden vunerabiliy under that tough guy image. And since I love the old Warner Toons, we can sit down with some good cooking and watch toons and chat, among other things:P.

Now for Crusade, I would definately choose Max. Galen is a somewhat close second, but Max definately takes the prize. Here is another guy who is hiding a very vunerable side under a tough, know-it-all attitude. And he is also VERY good looking. And archeology has always been one of my hidden hobbies, so I would LOVE to hear about all the things he has seen and discovered. Plus, he's a great dancer:)

So those are my picks, and as to where the date would be, I would leave it up to the guys themselves, to surprise me:)

Thinking thoughts that definately don't need posting,

Aylisha :P

I've got to say Max Eilerson. Yeah, I know- mercenary, self-serving, cynical. Mercenary is close to my own heart :) and there's nothing wrong with a little self-serving cynicism! Besides, that's looking at only one facet of the man's character- he's also extremely intelligent, has travelled to who knows how many different places and has a really wicked sense of humor. Yes, it's usually biting and sarcastic, but also usually in return or in anticipation of someone making a cutting remark to him- in which case, I'd be just as likely to turn and bite hard, myself.

I think it would be fun to just talk to him- there is nothing more stimulating than a good conversation. But the wickedly devious part of me would like to take him someplace really out of character- an amusement park comes to mind. I'd love to see Max just have some fun!

-Mak

Hi girls!

Well if I could have a dream date with anyone in the B5 universe I would choose Lt. John Matheson from Crusade.

I think he's so cute...besides I think it would be very interesting to go out with a telepath and to have that feeling that maybe he's 'taking a look' inside your head and reading your thoughts. Beyond that he can be veeeery sexy in that uniform!

About the date...I don't know. Maybe go to Babylon 5 and have dinner in one of those wonderful and romantic restaurants; then, take a walk through the garden and maybe some other things later...I just hope that in that moment he could read my toughts!

That's it girls! Keep with the good work and let's bring Crusade back!

Sincerely
Luciana Horlle

Hi Sandy,

Why does it have to be a date? I would love to have a conversation with Ambassador Delenn over a good cup of, well, coffee for me, and whatever Minbari equivalent she'll have. To listen to a woman leader of such an ancient civilization, who could talk not only about millenia of galactic history, but about her unique role in more recent events, not just from the point of view of a woman, but that of a hybrid of two cultures, would truly be something I'd cherish.

Inge Heyer

Well, I don't know whether any of the guys on B5 would be interested in going out with anybody my age! But my preference would be a date with Neroon, assuming he isn't allergic to cat hair. In the past I've been known to intimidate my dates somewhat and I think Neroon would be fun and a challenge because I don't think he'd intimidate easily. I'd like to just sit and listen to him tell stuff about Minbar because I like the sound of his voice. Maybe I could persuade him to take me for a ride in his little shuttle. I'd like to take him bowling because I could probably beat him at it. Depending on how the date went, I might or might not tell him I named my cat after him.

Everyone knows what *mine* will be! :)

If I went on a date with G'Kar, it would just be him talking, & me listening--I could listen to him talk all day! What a voice he has!

Londo would also be great--at least the fun-loving Londo of the early episodes. That would be an interesting date! But a date with a guy who has a keeper on his shoulder...sorry, but three's a crowd!

Tammy

If I was able to choose who to go out on a date with, it would be Jason Carter....hands down. His character of Marcus Cole was so believeable and fun loving. My dream date with him would be to go spend a day at the Omaha zoo and then have a nice dinner to talk and learn more about his sense of humor.

Kathy

haha... that's a good one, hope hubby doesn't see this one :)

That's a toughie. I would probably choose Garibaldi, because he's so full of life and funny and straightforward. I think he would be a great date. Although Marcus and Galen would be close seconds.

Now THAT'S a good one. There are lots to choose from. I might take Lize Edgars-Garibaldi because she's a successful professional and very attractive.

If we're just talking a night out for fun and excitement where we wouldn't have to worry about calling eachother later, DEFINITELY Dodger.

Londo of course. He has six....well, you know.

Do you think it is important to have an accurate reflection of science in science fiction?

Date: 5/12/00 6:03:32 PM EDT
From: obley@sunline.net (Pat and Steph Obley)

I'm a bit late in answering the discussion question, but thought it was an important one.

I absolutely believe that science should be portrayed as accurately as possible - with some exceptions for artist license and technology which doesn't yet exist - at all times. As someone who is studying science, I see it misrepresented so often. It doesn't do anything positive for anyone to misrepresent science. It makes the show look bad, and it gives people bad information. Science is a critical part of our understanding of the universe, the Earth and ourselves. To treat it lightly is wrong. Just as with anything else, getting the facts straight should be the top priority, and I felt like Bablyon 5 did a good job of that.

Sandra,

I think it is very important to have the science in science fiction correct. As with any genre of stroytelling, historical drama, for instance, inaccuracies can detract from the story. Literary license is one thing, and I sometimes don't mind when a movie or TV show plays fast and loose with the facts. Take the movie ''U-571.'' It was the British who boarded an abandoned German U-boat and recovered the Enigma machine, but ''U-571'' has Americans being the heroes, and the U-boat part of the story is different, too. But I know the movie is an entertainment. And it is accurate concerning submarining. So there are times when I will suspend my disbelief. After all, all stories ask you to do this. But it makes it so much easier when all the facts are correct. Or at least in the case of science fiction, agree with what we postulate.

Robert Folsom

Hi Sandy,

I think it is a good idea for science fiction to be as truthful as possible to real science (i.e. don't claim the earth is flat), but also extend real science to ideas that might not have been thought about yet. When the original Star Trek series came on, real science didn't think about talking computers. But talking computers can capture the imagination, and maybe bring it into existence. The research that is going on now relating to teleporting objects is referred to as transporting things like Star Trek. Science fiction can push real science by suggesting creative ideas, and can educate people about real science in a way they would consider fun rather than difficult study.

Thanks for all your efforts in keeping B5 alive via the newsletters and chats.

Bonnie

If you are going to call a work science fiction, then I think it is of the utmost importance. Otherwise, it isn't science fiction.

Laurraine Tutihasi

I think YES as far as taking something known and moving forward to what could be. In referring to SF it is a presupposition that Science will be involved in some measure. To do otherwise moves the show, book, etc. into the realms of fantasy.

Yes, primitive people may construe technology for magic, but I still think there has to be a good foundation there to start with. If you recall even StarTrek based a lot of their technology on the cutting edge research being done in the sixties, which has now become reality. Who knows what is coming out of the research labs in the future?

Of all genres SF is the only one to examine technology and it's implications for the future. Cloning for instance. There have been many stories about the moral implications of cloning, should it be possible to clone a human. What rights would they have, if any. Or an AI that becomes fully sentient. Would it have any rights? Or would the clone or AI be considered property, as in slave.

Computers, cell phones, biological warfare, laser technology, etc. have all been examined by SF long in advance of the technology becoming a reality. Some of the scientists working in research labs are great dreamers. Who knows what they envision a future to be?

Regards,
Vicki

Hi Sandy,

To answer your question: Do you think it's important to accurately reflect science in science fiction, the answer is a resounding yes. Although most good fiction, science or otherwise, starts with a great idea or imagination, without a basis in fact it's just unbelievable.

Think back to the amazing strides we've made in technology in the last 30 years alone: Star Trek's flip open communicator now IS the cell phone. Medical scanners: MRIs, bionics, implants, etc. All of these just sounded like science fiction 30 years ago, and are now science fact. My dad likes to say when he got started with computers, they were room-sized: now you can get a palm-sized one!

I think the whole point is one of checks and balances. If you can imagine something, you owe it to yourself, and the fans to research it to see if its possible.

Me; I'm waiting to get my hands on a star fury!

Sandra,

I really enjoy the e-messages and appreciate all your work.

In answer to the question:
Yes, yes, a million times yes.

Think of the science-based problems that face our human society: global warming, environmental degradation, food supply issues. These issues are WAY too important to be left up to the politicians. Our last, best hope is an educated citizenry. Science fiction is not the only answer, of course, but good science fiction, soundly based on science, can enhance a viewer's appreciation of the role of science in our society.

There is a sound marketing reason for good science in science fiction, too--all of us geeks out here who love science AND love science fiction. Nothing turns us off faster than pseudo- or bogus science.

I teach environmental science at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill.

best wishes,
Cheryl Warren

I think that it is somewhat important to have accurate science in science fiction. Of course, this should not overshadow the plot or the characterization. Those are the main things that I am concerned with. But if they show a science error that is easily noticed by everyone, it can detract from the overall show or episode. I really can't think of any science error that I noticed in B5. My brother usually is the one to notice when any TV show gets something wrong. I'm more casual about it, unless it is just a major goof that anyone of average intelligence would notice right off.

-Mike Tuck

My favourite sub… is Neroon. I can't really explain why, there was a certain quality about him, a sort of chivalry, a sense of rightness and honour !

Tanks, Chant

Sent: Thursday, May 04, 2000 1:19 AM

My favorite sub-character was Neroon. He grew from a card board character to one I grew to respect. I actually agreed with him when he disagreed with the selection of of Delenn as An-til-zah. The separation of church and state must be sacrosanct.

Thanks for listening
Laura Eklund

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Date: 4/30/00 7:04:40 AM EDT
From: JBehling

Do I have a favorite "sub character?"

Yup.
No question.

ZATHRAS

Who else? Calm under pressure, fulfills his duty, is honest, has integrity, and knows the secrets of the universe. Who could be better?

-John Behling

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Date: 4/28/00 10:19:02 AM EDT
From: senoucci@21st.de (Nadja Senoucci)

Hello,

So, my most favorite sub-character was Neroon. He always persued in things he believed were best for the Minbari.

He believed Delenn would not make a good Entil'Zah because she was not a warrior. But as he saw that others were willing to die for her, he saw that he was wrong and that she was a strong leader.

He always stood for what he believed was right. As in the end as he steped into the starfirewheel to take Delenns place and help his people back to peace. He said that he was a member of the religious cast and therefore turned his back on the warrior cast whose leader wasn't even willing to die himself (but sent others into death) for his cause.

In the end he died for what he belived in.

So, what I want to say is that Neroon was a very strong character that didn't change much over the seasons but learned a lot. And that made him very interesting to me.

CU,
Nadja

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Date: 4/28/00 4:31:24 PM EDT
From: CripeHL@itrcorporation.com (Cripe, Helen L.)

Anybody who knows me knows that my all-time favorite "sub-character" is Neroon. His early appearances interested me because he was a perfect gadfly and foil for the Minbari religious caste, who at times seemed a little too good to be true. In his final three episodes, "Grey 17 is Missing", "Rumors, Bargains & Lies", and "Moments of Transition", Neroon showed that he had the ability to grow and change, and the strength of character to make a great sacrifice for the good of all his people, thus ending the Minbari civil war. Aside from these nobler sentiments, there is the Voice and the Presence, enough to make me drool every time he walks across the screen even though I'm old enough to be his mother. I have his picture at my workstation in a place of importance - right beside those of my cats. And the most recently acquired boy cat is named "Neroon"!

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Date: 4/28/00 11:03:51 AM EDT
From: cable1959@yahoo.com (Bill Curtis)

Hi Sandy,

For me, my least favorite would have to be the "Fake" Kosh, the replacement the Vorlons sent to B5 after Kosh was killed by the Shadows. The only thing missing should have been Sheridan's speech to the fake: "Mr. Vorlon Ambassador, I knew the real Ambassador Kosh, and you are no Ambassador Kosh!"

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Date: 4/27/00 7:22:15 PM EDT
From: RobWired

Sandra,

I don't know if he qualifies; he may have had too much screen time, but my favorite sub-character is pilot Warren. My girlfriend and I were watching an epsiode that we thought was a dramatic one concerning Warren. True B5 fans, this was during a re-watching, in order, of all of the episodes. We started crying, then, to our relief, we discovered it wasn't time to cry. Yet. That will be in an upcoming episode.

Robert Folsom

Last week's topic:>br? What is your favorite one-liner?

Date: 4/24/00 11:56:31 PM EDT
From: DelennToo

Well, I know there are a lot of really good one-liners, but the line that stands out for me as representing B5 is from "Chrysalis," when Kosh tells Sinclair ...

"And so it begins."

Penny

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Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2000 6:32:33 PM EDT
From: Denise Davis

Favorite One liner:

With out a doubt my favorite one liner is from the episode "War Without End" Part 1. Sinclair, Sheridan, Marcus, Delenn, Lennier, Zathras and Ivanova are about to depart for Babylon 4 and Ivanova says "I'll be waiting in the car." This episode also has a line that has always remained locked in my head (and my heart), "Hello, old friend."

Denise A. Davis
Upstate New York

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Date: 4/17/00 2:36:08 PM EDT
From: tuckbros@crunet.com (Gary L. Tuck and Mike Tuck)

I am going to give a few one liners that I can remember, because it is a "toss-up" as to which one is my favorite. These won't be direct quotes since I haven't seen these episodes in awhile, I'm just going by memory. Also, I can't remember which episodes they are from, but I'll give a season it was in, if I can remember.

1st season: 1) (Sinclair to Garibaldi:) "Michael, you're more trouble than a toilet full of snakes..."
2) (Sinclair to some guest character:) "Get out of my way, or, by God, I'll push you out the nearest airlock."
3) (Sinclair asks Garibaldi how he feels after a fight (I think) and Garibaldi replies:) "Like I just made love to a meteor shower."
4) (Garibaldi says this to Talia Winters, referring to his love of Duck Dodgers cartoons:) "I want to show you my favorite thing in the universe...(looking at Talia) Okay, my second favorite thing in the universe."
2nd season: 5) (Sheridan said this on at least two occasions that I can remember, at least once to Ivanova:) "...Get the hell out of my chair."

4th season: 6) (Sheridan makes an impassioned speech as to why the Shadows and Vorlons should stop fighting and leave and then says:) "...Now, get the hell out of our galaxy!!"

There are probably more that I simply can't remember right now, but those are the ones that stand out in my mind.

-Mike

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Date: 4/17/00 10:34:18 AM EDT
From: cable1959@yahoo.com (Bill Curtis)

Hi Sandy,

Your're right; it's hard to choose just one, there were so many good ones to choose from! I think one of my favorites would have to be from Londo: "No, you have that looks that says: hold by head to your ear and you will hear the ocean."

Londo to Zack
"The Very Long Night of Londo Mollari"

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Date: 4/17/00 10:04:14 AM EDT
From: CripeHL@itrcorporation.com (Cripe, Helen L.)

My favorite oneliner comes from Lennier, who actually got a lot of great oneliners all through the series. It's in "Grey 17 is Missing", where, in reference to Neroon's threats against Delenn, Lennier says he thinks Neroon intends to go far beyond harsh language. Part of what makes this so funny to me is Bill Mumy's serious, deadpan delivery. He's a far better actor than he gets credit for, and his work as a kid actor makes that cutesy kid in the Star Wars movie look pretty pathetic.

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Date: 4/17/00 1:18:24 AM EDT
From: Jhawks2

Favorite one-liner:

"Why not? The only human captain to survive combat with the Minbari is behind me, you are in front of me. If you value your lives, be somewhere else."

Delenn - Severed Dreams

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